Abour four months ago my second toe on my right foot begin to move over next to my big toe. Now when I walk it wants to over lap and does often cross over the big toe half way. I know they have toe alighnment pads etc. But I don't think you can wear them barefoot on the beach or with sandles. At least with out being detected.
Does anyone know what causes the toes to want to do this and of any exercizes or natural treatments that can help over lapping toes re-align themselves. Or has anyone had surgical correction? I'm a 46 year old female. The only thing I know about overlapping toes is an elderly friend of mine (now deceased) had them and she said she had surgery twice to re align them and both times they went back to over lapping after a few years.
Thanks
Windy

Overlapping toes are often caused by wearing footwear that is too short or too narrow. If your big toe is also drifting toward your second (bunion) then you may want to consider an HV night splint. This will decrease the progression of the big toe going toward the second toe. There are toe dividers but you would need a shoe to keep them in place. And of course you could go for a surgery consult.

If you have not had your foot measured in the past year, you may want to consider going to a comfort shoe store where they still measure your foot.

Hi,

It's me again.
Update on my foot since I posted in 04 I have a fairly large bunion next to big toe on right foot. Big toe slightly leans over to second toe. Second and third toe lean toward big toe and the second toe will lift up when I'm walking in flip flops and cross over the big toe.
Also, I am a flip ,flop, wide toe shoe and sandal person, and go barefoot or wear slippers at home. I hate narrow, pointy toed shoes and rarely ever wore them my whole life. The most I did was wear a pair of slightly pointed (but wide as I could get them) shoes to church and took them off the minute I got home. Even kicked them off afer I sat down in church during the whole service. I don't think that caused my peoblem as I hardlye ver wore them that long to do permanent damage..Plus I happen to know several dancers in ther 40's who wear extremely pointed toed shoes and a teacher in ehr 40's who wears them every day since her 20's to teach class with no toe alighnment problems at all.
My opinion is, it's not worth it to me to be weating shoes like that, but I feel like it really is mostly genetic that causes you to have the footdeformities you tend to develop in life. I think it's' genetics for me, as CMT and foot problems run on my dads side of the family and because I rarely ever wear pointy, confined shoes and live in wide leather, comfy sandals, flip flops and barefoot. My cousins in their mid and late 40's use canes, scooters, or limp severely and thier parents are in wheel chairs. I think I'm the lucky one as my dad didn't show signs of the CMT but myabe had some toes slighly over lapping. he died when I was 12 so not sure. I do remember he had very long toes. Problem seems mild to them. Being I can walk a few miles a day if I want to, IF I'm wearing my wide toed "Minnnie mouse" looking Euro walking shoe with a hop, run etc, even with my problem.

I finally saw a podiatrist who does surgery. Saw him In April 06 and then again July 06 and have surgery scheduled this Friday Aug 11th . He recommends Bunionectomy on big toe and fusion of the 2nd and third toe. Anthroplasty of fourth which I might not get, as the fourth toe doesn't hurt at all but is slightly curved in the middle and at the tip tpward the third toe. But everyone in my family has it on moms side. It doesn't cause any of us pain , rub my shoes or nor has it moved over into the space of the other toes. Just looks slightly funny being curved a bit, although when I show it to others, even my younger friends in their 20's and 30's( I'm 48) they say they would leave it alone. As it's not the one causing me problems. They say'If it ain't broke why try and fix it"? If it is causing prorblems, I never knew about it. It doesn't look bad in sandals, Most straps cover that toe anyway not showing the curve of it, the second and third toes lapping each other and the bunion does kinda look funky in sandals though.
He said the only reason he might want to correct the fourth curved toe ( he called it my "curly toe") is because when he straightens the 2nd and third toes, the third toe might over lap the fourth one. But I don't think it will. I moved the third toe over far as it would go and the most it does, is lie very close along side the curved toe. which is what it used to do anyway, before the third toe started moving toward the second toe and second toe toward the big one. It lies up very close to the toe on the left foot also

The bunion hurts when I wear a regular shoe. It doesn't
hurt if I wear this really , super wide pair of Euro walking shoes. Or these old leather sandals that allow the bunion to stick out between the straps and not be touched. Or even when I wear a pair of cute, but getting ratty, dress sandals that lets the bunion stick out between the straps. That shoe even has a 1 1/2 inch chunky heel and my feet feel pretty good in it. I would not wear a spike heeled, high heel shoes for anything. Chunky heel maybe, for an occasional dinner out or church. My feet are kind of flattish so spread out when I walk and I need a wide shoe. The bunion doesn't hurt at all when I wear the Euro shoe , flip, flops or barefoot. The over lapping toes don't hurt. Once in a while I feel a tiny bit stiffness in and off in them. But other then that they're okay. No Atrithitic ache or anything like that.
And lifting up as they do on and off, they do want to over lap each other and that makes me ever so slightly off balance as I can't quite spring up on my toes as I should.

I asked the Dr wouldn't fusion limit mobility in the foot also though and springing up? He said somewhat and had me flex my toes for him but didn't say how much limited mobilty I would have. I know I don't want anything to do witha Keller Procedure as I don't want floppy toes to replace over lapping toes. I love to walk and might even want to take up hiking and want to start riding my bike again, like I did years ago ( I'm 30-40 pound over weight.)
But now I'm reading posts about people who had fusions or others posting telling what they know about it , and they're saying you can't do this or that. Can't walk normally up hill. can't ever wear high heel shoes after the fusion. What??? not even my older but cute and even comfy wided toed dress sandal with the 1 1/2" chunky heel with ankle strap?. I only wear them to church but would like to be able to wear a very wide (as I can find) high heeled sandal with wide open toe box area. As wide as I could get it and about a 1 1/2 heel or less for church or dinner. Note ** I wear flat or low heeled wide shoes 85% of my time and it was hereditary that cause my bunion and overlapping toes from my dads side of the family.
But now to hear that after a fusion I can't even wear a wide chunky high heeled sandal/pump if I get the fusion, does sort of bother me. I don't want to sound vain, but a 65 year old lady in my church got who got her bunion removed and over lapping toes corrected by the same Dr who's is supposed to do my surgery said she got over her surgery quickly and now dances in high heels and wears pointy toed boots all the time now. But she didn't get a fusion of the over lapping toes. Just surgery to correct it with pins in her toes and they were removed afterwards.
I only want to wear a wide toed comfort sandal, yet one that has a heel to church or a nice restaurant once in a while. Never at home or just shopping, and would take it right off after church or returning home from the restaurant or outing. And from what I read I won't be able to? I don't mean I want to wear a spikey heel but more a chunky 1 1/2" and under heel on my dress shoe/ sandal .
Also, I don't like hearing I'll have a stiff, unmoving toes. will never be able to do squats or flex my toes at all, when I can do all that now with no problem at all. I can even pretend to do ballerina dances and everything right now.leap in the air etc. I'm 5 2 and 165 pounds( over weight I know) yet, I can do dances my slim 22 year old daughter can't even do right now. I can even walk longer then she does, as she is used to driving and gets pooped easily from walking. I'm too chicken to drive and walked all my life when I don't and now when I don't feel like asking her or my husband to drive me somewhere.
I love 2-4 mile country walks and would walk more if not for the bunion.
I'd rather have what I have now and not look so hot in sandals then trade it for very limited mobility of my toes, or them sticking straight out and stiff and not able to do alot of activities after a fusion. Or maybe developing arhtritis in the fused area or joints next to it. Which I don't have right now.
My Dr .was rather vague on it and just said I'd have "somewhat limited mobility" and had me flex my toes for him.
I've since read that some Dr. think fusion okay but they lean toward older patients. I'm 48 but I look much younger and do want to get more active and walk miles a day and hike and ride bikes and dance.
I don't want to be vain but it seems with a fusion, my toes might look nicer but I'll be able to do LESS activities with it then before I had it.
I know you can't take it back once it's done so now I'd like some opinions on it.
Sorry this is so long but surgery is scheduled for Friday and now I'm getting cold feet. I'm having it done by the first podiatrist I saw only because the lady at church loved her results with him. Yet he didn't do fusion on her Just removed her bunion and straighten two over lapping toes with pins that were later removed. . He's certified on the American board of podiatrist surgery etc,
Should I have gotten a second opinion on fusion and why some Dr prefer it? I really don't know why he wants fusion for me. When I first saw him in April I don't remember him saying the word fusion. Just removal of the bunion, straighten the over lapping toes and remove the pins after how many weeks. When I went back in July and that's the first time he mentioned fusion.
can I have pros and cons about fusion and why would it need to be done?
Anyone on this forum had it done and are you sorry? How limited are you in movement and activities?
Thanks. I think I'm getting cold feet here concerning surgery, but maybe for a valid reason?
Cheryl

Long read. Surgery is not something that easly comment on. But yes get a second oppinion try an orthopedic surgion who consentrates on feet.

Shoe wear is a major factore along with genetics to cause bunions. Your genetics may predispose your to foot propblems and the shoe push your over the edge.

More than likely your have Morton's toe Syndrome a genetic trait, that has the easy to see trait of a long second toe. The critical part of is more inside wear the first MTP joint is more proximal and the second is more distal in realation (yuor big toe joint is closer to your ankle and the second is mre distant).

This set up a an unstable role over situtation even more so when the foot is loose and flexable and the arch is low. Walkig on hard man made surfaces with shoe wear can result in deconditioning of the intrensic muscle along with the foot role over shape cuse the foot to be negitively affect over the year.

Genetic bunions usally show up between 16-18yrs of age aquires through shoe wear the foot shoe signs at 25yrs then will need correction or accomadation by 32-45yrs(this based on my own observations).

If their shoe that are not pain wear them get your foot balenced with a full length foot orthosis (check to see if a morton's modification is for you) see how you feel if your still unhappy seek surgical advice. If your get surgery then you have to deal with what your foot is then good or bad.

If you do not get surgery what harm will if do?

Be well, hope this helps

Dear Cheryl
A fusion will limit the mobility at a joint. There may be motion above or below the fusion site but there will definately be limitation of motion once a joint fusion is performed. The decision to perform a joint fusioin is based on a number of factors 1) pain 2) bone quality/bone stock 3) amount of arthritis present at a joint 4) previous surgery 5) radiographic changes 6) patient compliance 7) age 8) doctor 9) patient 10) activity level etc...It is important to be informed and understand what the final outcome will allow you to do and what the limitations are regarding the procedure.

Good-luck and thank-you for contacting foot.com
SBarlizo, DPM, C Ped
foot.com expert

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Hi,
Thanks to you both for the feedback. I had slight bunions since a teen. Only I didn't know it back then as my I thought everyone had that little bump on the side. However it didn't
impede my walking and wasn't very big then. At 19 I got a job as messenger and used to walk about 5-10 miles a day delivering messages. I always wore very wide comfortable shoes. My feet rarely ever hurt me. My feet are on the flat side but my Podiatrist said they weren't true flat feet.
I always wore comfortable wide shoes that didn't bind and pinch, except for wide pumps at church, which I took off as soon as I got home. I wear slippers in the house as my husband is Asian and that's their tradition

About the age of 36 I noticed my second toe moving away from the third and more toward the big toe slightly. Not enough to make a big deal about but definitely a little space there . At age 46 (2004) my bunion started getting bigger with the big toe going more toward the second toe and second toe more toward the first, and then third toe started moving over towards the second toe. Then 2005 I had about four months of excruciating heel pain. After getting tired of it and asking for prayer and anointing at church and taking a natural supplement for heel pain, it totally went away within 10 days of both , and hasn't come back. It's been about 9 months since I've been pain free from heel pain.
My bunion has been bothering me a bit more now. It gets red and sore if I try and get a way with a dress shoe that rubs it in anyway. Although the overlapping toes don't really hurt. If I wear a wide shoe or any shoe that doesn't touch the bunion I'm fine. But, they( my right foot and toes ) don't look as nice as I would like them to and the bunion is a nuisance trying to find shoes that will accomodate it.
I have never had any surgery on my feet except something done for an ingrown big toenail once, 20 years ago. I had my x-rays at the Podiatrist in April and then went back again in July. He didn't x-ray my feet again when I went back in July, and on both visits I don't remember him saying anything about arthritis or greatly deteriorated bones or joints.
I'm 48 now. I need to lose 30 pounds but have gotten very active recently. I used to be very active and then went through about 6 months of deep depression and just stopped all activities, and packed on 30 pounds. That was right after 9-11. Having to deal with that and a seriously ill sister just got to me.
I'm over that now and my sister is much better. I work for my husbands home business and can make my own hours. Wear slippers in the house.
I have decided that it's very foolish to neglect my health at my age (48) . I have a terrible sweet tooth . So, So, I'm eating very nutritious foods now and I walk 1-2 miles once or twice a day and swim an hour a day and then workout with weights for an hour then dance/aerobics for 30 minutes.

On cool days I ride my bicycle for one mile in the morning and take my walk in the evening.
My feet rarely hurt as I make sure the bunion is not being rubbed and I'm wearing my wide toe Euro sports shoes.

When I asked the Podiatrist who is a Diplomat of the American Board of Podiatric Surgery and Diplomat of National Board of Examiners, why he wanted to do the fusion he basically said it would keep my toes from ever re-overlapping again. He felt it was more permanent then other procedures.
He never said it's because "You have arthritis or your case is more severe and it would be best for you".
Just that it would insure they won't over lap again.
When I told him it didn't sound like I would be able to be very active after that. I told him, I love to walk and hike. He said it would only limit my mobility "somewhat". That's where I am confused . It doesn't seem like it is the best procedure for how active I am now and I plan to get involved with martial arts due to my husbands connections to it.. I doubt a peson with fused toes would be able to do that any time down the road. As of now I can still do alot of activities, even 30 pounds over weight. Which I see I am toning up a lot already due to my activities.
I understand that with any procedure there might be a trade off in some way. That's life.
But since I'm not in much pain, ( if I wear a very wide un attractive shoes) or dress shoes that look and feel nice but show the world my bunion and over lapping toes. I am not in a hurry to do a procedure that I might regret later.
I don't want to be made that much less active, just to lose a bunion and have straighter prettier toes right now.
I don't mind losing a small bit of mobility. It just seems like a fusion will limit me too much for what I want to do.
But my Dr argues that fusion's don't limit your activities that much, just a little.That's where the problem lies. I don't know how he thinks I'm going to be able to do the things I specifically told him I wanted to be able to do down the road, if I get a fusion. From what I have read I wouldn't be able to.
That's why I cancelled the surgery and am opting to get a second opinion.
I feel I'm not an emergency case (yet)and have time to look into more options. Once it's done it's done and you can't take it back.
I know eventually I have to make a decision on what I want to do. I'm sure it might get worse over time. My dads side of the family had alot of feet problems. His mother had CMT and she gave it to one son and one daughter( but not my dad). He had seven other brothers and sisters. Only two showed symptoms of CMT. Dad had long flattish feet, but obviously not flat enough to keep him out of the military. His brother and one sister that inherited the CMT had very high
arched feet. My aunt with CMT had four kids two of her kids ( her two twins) inherited it. One had high arched feet and the other one had unusually long , flat feet. Both twins were diagnosed with CMT in their late 30's. My uncle that had the CMT had three boys and one had the very high arched feet ( my cousins now in their mid 40's) are on disability and are in scooters or using canes. And each one of my cousins with CMT has two grandchildren each and the first born of each has inherited the CMT.

As far as I know I don't have it but my dad might have been a carrier of some sort and passed something on to me. He died when I was 12.
My cousins and even their children think I'm the lucky one as they're younger and basically can't do any of the things I can do.

That's why I feel I have some time to get more educated and explore the other options that could be done for my problem.
Thank you so much for the input. This has been very helpful.
dawn

Dear Cheryl
People with fusions can still continue living relatively active lives, just as we discussed before may limit certain activities. Good-luck with your second opinion!

SBarlizo, DPM, C Ped
foot.com expert